Comments on: The Virtue of Living Life Rationally http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:53:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Glenn http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-1272304 Glenn Fri, 13 Jan 2012 05:15:31 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-1272304 To quote Doug, "God cannot be understood by intellectual means alone". Well then, this supposed god of yours has lost my vote because all I have is my powers of observation and mind. Why should I choose your god over and above the thousands of other purported gods that people have invented throughout history? Even if your god was real, I would have only a 1/1,000,000 chance of choosing the true god from the plethora of gods available. The whole argument of not being able to understand god and having to rely on faith is one massive cop-out and smacks of church leaders wanting to dumb down the masses. Have a nice day, and may the universal Logos of rationality bring you your just deserts. To quote Doug, “God cannot be understood by intellectual means alone”. Well then, this supposed god of yours has lost my vote because all I have is my powers of observation and mind. Why should I choose your god over and above the thousands of other purported gods that people have invented throughout history? Even if your god was real, I would have only a 1/1,000,000 chance of choosing the true god from the plethora of gods available. The whole argument of not being able to understand god and having to rely on faith is one massive cop-out and smacks of church leaders wanting to dumb down the masses. Have a nice day, and may the universal Logos of rationality bring you your just deserts.

]]> By: Dougl ias Cartwright http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-373119 Dougl ias Cartwright Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:58:26 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-373119 This is an interesting debate. I'm a Christian (or more accurately I try to live from the worldview of Jesus as best I understand it) and I was recently studying the bible with a guy who is an engineer and sees the world very strongly through the eyes of the empirical, scientific paradigm. I explained to him that that particular paradigm is dominant right now but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY way of viewing the world. When people demand that evidence be verifiable, measurable, observable etc I understand why they do that. We all do that at times. But to insist (and I speak generally) here that something cannot exist because it cannot be measured does smack of blinkered thinking. We couldn't measure x-rays 200 years ago, we've only had powered flight for just over 100 years and so on. How do you measure love? At some point we'll be measuring chemical reactions in the body and brain and probably point to that but that is only one aspect of love. I cannot 'prove' Jesus is the Man to follow by scientific methods and my faith in Him is, to some degree based on what I call the weight of circumstantial evidence, and the likelihood of the witnesses being accurate (a much longer debate). But billions of people on this planet claim to have a relationship with Him, and it's incredibly arrogant for people to assume that these 2 billion are more stupid or less enlightened than them! The bible also makes it clear that God cannot be understood by intellectual means alone, so that argument does not hold water for me. Without the Holy Spirit, someone who does not believe does not really have a leg to stand on because that is a stated barrier to entry (so to speak). Anyway, like Scott pointed out, I understand my beliefs are just beliefs BUT that does not mean they cannot refer to something real. Scott,I loved your article on decision making and it's probably the most helpful piece of advice I've had on the topic in years. Thanks Doug Cartwright This is an interesting debate.

I’m a Christian (or more accurately I try to live from the worldview of Jesus as best I understand it) and I was recently studying the bible with a guy who is an engineer and sees the world very strongly through the eyes of the empirical, scientific paradigm. I explained to him that that particular paradigm is dominant right now but that doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY way of viewing the world.
When people demand that evidence be verifiable, measurable, observable etc I understand why they do that. We all do that at times.

But to insist (and I speak generally) here that something cannot exist because it cannot be measured does smack of blinkered thinking. We couldn’t measure x-rays 200 years ago, we’ve only had powered flight for just over 100 years and so on.

How do you measure love? At some point we’ll be measuring chemical reactions in the body and brain and probably point to that but that is only one aspect of love.

I cannot ‘prove’ Jesus is the Man to follow by scientific methods and my faith in Him is, to some degree based on what I call the weight of circumstantial evidence, and the likelihood of the witnesses being accurate (a much longer debate).

But billions of people on this planet claim to have a relationship with Him, and it’s incredibly arrogant for people to assume that these 2 billion are more stupid or less enlightened than them! The bible also makes it clear that God cannot be understood by intellectual means alone, so that argument does not hold water for me. Without the Holy Spirit, someone who does not believe does not really have a leg to stand on because that is a stated barrier to entry (so to speak).

Anyway, like Scott pointed out, I understand my beliefs are just beliefs BUT that does not mean they cannot refer to something real.

Scott,I loved your article on decision making and it’s probably the most helpful piece of advice I’ve had on the topic in years. Thanks

Doug Cartwright

]]> By: Vesa http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-354204 Vesa Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:30:14 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-354204 Thumbs up! I was browsing through the nets and found your blog by accident. In one well written article you managed to say what i was thinking and struggling to say just the orher day. Thank you! -Vesa Thumbs up! I was browsing through the nets and found your blog by accident. In one well written article you managed to say what i was thinking and struggling to say just the orher day.

Thank you!

-Vesa

]]> By: zdoll http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-87660 zdoll Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:07:00 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-87660 Good gracious! Some of the comments you were arguing against remind me of my Philosophy class which mainly focused on morals and politics.. Each of those comments were rebutted quite well (in your article and in that class). I would highly recommend that you should take a philosophy class on these subjects if you can, or read books about them (especially Aristotle’s virtue theory and eudaimonia) if you have not already. What you would specifically learn is how the use rationality and certain universal morals are justified scientifically and otherwise. :) Good gracious! Some of the comments you were arguing against remind me of my Philosophy class which mainly focused on morals and politics.. Each of those comments were rebutted quite well (in your article and in that class). I would highly recommend that you should take a philosophy class on these subjects if you can, or read books about them (especially Aristotle’s virtue theory and eudaimonia) if you have not already. What you would specifically learn is how the use rationality and certain universal morals are justified scientifically and otherwise.

:)

]]> By: Iair http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-61209 Iair Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:14:25 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-61209 Scott, Right, it's a process, but my point is (for example): "Rational:¿Does G-d exist?, well, as I'm rational, there is no scientific proof that g-d exist, so the possibility that g-d actually exist is 0%, that means that Rationally g-d doesn't exist. And because I'm a rational man, for me there is no possibility that g-d could exist at all" My point: giving 0% possibility to that is obviously unfair. you give it 0% because it does not fit your "system" (process). To have most of the world believing that, isn't a scientifically or rationally reason to assign it more than 0%. But i sustain that it's unfair. Strictly Rationally thinking should be a bit flexible in this thing. If not, you will have to accept that most of the people in the world it's crazy, believing in something 0% possible. Do you get my point? I'm not asking you to believe, but to treat somebody not strictly rational as a normal person (that would include accepting that the possibility isn't actually 0%) Thanks, In Argentina I would have said "Sos grosso, man" Scott,
Right, it’s a process, but my point is (for example):
“Rational:¿Does G-d exist?, well, as I’m rational, there is no scientific proof that g-d exist, so the possibility that g-d actually exist is 0%, that means that Rationally g-d doesn’t exist. And because I’m a rational man, for me there is no possibility that g-d could exist at all”
My point: giving 0% possibility to that is obviously unfair. you give it 0% because it does not fit your “system” (process). To have most of the world believing that, isn’t a scientifically or rationally reason to assign it more than 0%. But i sustain that it’s unfair. Strictly Rationally thinking should be a bit flexible in this thing. If not, you will have to accept that most of the people in the world it’s crazy, believing in something 0% possible.
Do you get my point? I’m not asking you to believe, but to treat somebody not strictly rational as a normal person (that would include accepting that the possibility isn’t actually 0%)
Thanks,
In Argentina I would have said “Sos grosso, man”

]]> By: Scott Young http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-61146 Scott Young Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:27:35 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-61146 Iair, Rationality doesn't mean you don't accept anything without scientific proof. It is more of a process than a destination. Exploring ideas without attaching to them, and viewing things as they match up to your reality. I frequently hear that rationality is limiting yourself to not believe things that aren't strictly scientific and logical. I'd like to argue the opposite side of the coin, that this belief allows you to explore ideas and philosophies beyond anything you would by simply accepting one version as being true. -Scott Iair,

Rationality doesn’t mean you don’t accept anything without scientific proof. It is more of a process than a destination. Exploring ideas without attaching to them, and viewing things as they match up to your reality.

I frequently hear that rationality is limiting yourself to not believe things that aren’t strictly scientific and logical. I’d like to argue the opposite side of the coin, that this belief allows you to explore ideas and philosophies beyond anything you would by simply accepting one version as being true.

-Scott

]]> By: Tony http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-61033 Tony Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:28:49 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-61033 Nice try Scotty, but the Oracle of Delphi must proclaim that Socrates is still the smartest in Greece. Nice try Scotty, but the Oracle of Delphi must proclaim that Socrates is still the smartest in Greece.

]]> By: Iair http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-60900 Iair Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:38:30 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-60900 Scott, it's true that being strictly rational it's cool, more useful, you name it. In my particular case I "rationally" came to the conclusion that faith (religion) it's the best way to explain the universe and life. I said "rationally" but it isn't, indeed. It's courious, that there is no rational "solution" for believers, i mean, something like: "my mind is strictly rational. I can understand nothing but rational things" "There is no space for believers since they don't fit into my rationality". But the fact is that rational people ignore that maybe they are wrong in thinking life and universe depends on something "rational". So, try to find your answer but also accept that you might be wrong and what you think it's wrong may be right. There is no reason to to ask "Well, you might be right but please demonstrate it", just let it stay there without a need for demonstration. Scott, it’s true that being strictly rational it’s cool, more useful, you name it. In my particular case I “rationally” came to the conclusion that faith (religion) it’s the best way to explain the universe and life. I said “rationally” but it isn’t, indeed. It’s courious, that there is no rational “solution” for believers, i mean, something like: “my mind is strictly rational. I can understand nothing but rational things” “There is no space for believers since they don’t fit into my rationality”. But the fact is that rational people ignore that maybe they are wrong in thinking life and universe depends on something “rational”.
So, try to find your answer but also accept that you might be wrong and what you think it’s wrong may be right. There is no reason to to ask “Well, you might be right but please demonstrate it”, just let it stay there without a need for demonstration.

]]> By: ZHereford http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-60887 ZHereford Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:32:24 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-60887 Hey Scott, I guess what you can and can't know can be argued from either a practical or philosophical point of view. Of course, we can know things empirically. We can interpret and know many things within the context of our existence. Anything beyond that becomes philosophical and is more difficult to interpret. Then you can employ reason, deduction, speculation etc. Hey Scott,
I guess what you can and can’t know can be argued from either a practical or philosophical point of view.
Of course, we can know things empirically. We can interpret and know many things within the context of our existence. Anything beyond that becomes philosophical and is more difficult to interpret. Then you can employ reason, deduction, speculation etc.

]]> By: Addy http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/comment-page-1/#comment-60872 Addy Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:21:36 +0000 http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2007/10/08/the-virtue-of-living-life-rationally/#comment-60872 I like this post. I have a friend who has a different opinion than me when it comes to a lot of things: politics (she's a marxist, I like capitalism), religion (she's a Christian, I'm an atheist), philosophy (she likes Kant, I like a lot of people she doesn't), certain topics (she's pro-life, I'm pro-choice), and etc. If a topic stirs up too much heat we avoid it, but when we talk about certain things such as philosophy or even politics we learn a good bit about each other and it does allow us both to reexamine or further develop our own ideas and beliefs. We both try to look at things rationally, and do not always agree on everything. But sometimes I think that is a good thing or else it would be a boring friendship. As far the heart/head bit, I allow my emotions to play a certain part but also know when my head needs to be the ultimate decider. For instance, under stress I know I can become indecisive and moody. Thinking rationally really helps to put things in perspective as far as why I'm stressed and what I can do about it, and whether it is the right time to make a decision (and if so, how to go about deciding). But I appreciate what both have to offer. I like this post.

I have a friend who has a different opinion than me when it comes to a lot of things: politics (she’s a marxist, I like capitalism), religion (she’s a Christian, I’m an atheist), philosophy (she likes Kant, I like a lot of people she doesn’t), certain topics (she’s pro-life, I’m pro-choice), and etc.

If a topic stirs up too much heat we avoid it, but when we talk about certain things such as philosophy or even politics we learn a good bit about each other and it does allow us both to reexamine or further develop our own ideas and beliefs. We both try to look at things rationally, and do not always agree on everything. But sometimes I think that is a good thing or else it would be a boring friendship.

As far the heart/head bit, I allow my emotions to play a certain part but also know when my head needs to be the ultimate decider. For instance, under stress I know I can become indecisive and moody. Thinking rationally really helps to put things in perspective as far as why I’m stressed and what I can do about it, and whether it is the right time to make a decision (and if so, how to go about deciding). But I appreciate what both have to offer.

]]>